Thae Yong Ho, North Korea’s former deputy ambassador to the United Kingdom, defected with his family to South Korea in 2016. At the time, he was the highest-ranking diplomat ever to defect to South Korea.
Thae was elected to the National Assembly in 2020, becoming the first North Korean escapee who had previously served in the North Korean government to join South Korea’s legislative body. He represents Seoul’s wealthy Gangnam district.
In July, he was appointed to the country’s Peaceful Unification Advisory Council, making him the first defector to hold a vice-ministerial position in the South Korean government. He said at the time that the appointment shows the North Korean people that those who have escaped can achieve success in the South.
Thae spoke to Radio Free Asia in Washington DC on Monday about reunification policy and the recent deployment of North Korean troops to Russia.
RFA: Welcome. What brings you to Washington DC?
Thae: My main purpose is to have a global strategic meeting with more than 60 members of the Peaceful Unification Advisory Committee, where I am now working as secretary general. My organization is attached to the presidency. We advise and follow the policies of the president of the Republic of Korea, especially on the issue of North Korea.
Before coming to Washington, I was in New York and Philadelphia. We had a policy seminar in New York on the Aug. 15 Reunification Doctrine put forward by President Yoon Sung Yol.
And on Sunday, we had a seminar with young Korean Americans, to which we invited Julie Turner, the U.S. ambassador on North Korean human rights.
In Washington, I’m also going to speak at several think tanks, and I’m planning to meet American politicians to talk about South Korea and America’s policy on North Korea.
RFA: In both the North and South, there are many people eager to reunify. But last November, Kim Jong Un put out a statement that he is no longer interested in reunification. He had many reunification terms deleted from textbooks and subway stations and also demolished a statue dedicated to unification. What do you think were his motives?
Thae: The main reason for this is that now, inside North Korea, dreams for possible unification with South Korea have grown due to the widespread South Korean cultural wave. Younger North Koreans know about South Korean movies and dramas and pop music.
So, Kim Jong Un wants to totally separate the North and South. Quite recently he cut off the railroads and road systems between North and South and started to build walls along the military demarcation line to give a kind of a strong message to the North Korean population that there will be no reunification anywhere in the near future. He wants to totally isolate North Korea from the rest of the world.
RFA: How do you think North Korean people inside the country – especially younger people – are reacting to this?
Thae: It is only Kim Jong Un and [his sister] Kim Yo Jong who have said “no reunification.” But North Korean media, like the state-run Rodong Sinmun or Central TV, haven’t legitimized Kim Jong Un’s no reunification policy.
In North Korea, people have been trained and brainwashed with the word “reunification” for quite a long time. Now, all of a sudden, Kim Jong Un is saying “no more talking about reunification.” So there is a lot of confusion now inside.
RFA: What were your thoughts when you watched the video footage of North Korean soldiers in a Russian facility?
Thae: When I first saw that video file, I wondered whether they were North Korean soldiers or not because they seemed very shabby compared with the Russian soldiers. They are very small. They looked very much malnourished, very hungry.
But later on many intelligence agencies worldwide confirmed that they are really North Korean soldiers. I was almost shocked because during my days in North Korea, I was educated that North Korean soldiers wouldn’t ever fight for the interests of other countries.
Even inside North Korea, this deployment is kept as a kind of top secret. I’m still waiting to see what could be the new development by sending these soldiers to the Ukrainian war – whether they would fight well or whether Kim Jong Un’s policy to support Russia would fail. The next couple of weeks or months could be very crucial for the future of North Korea.
RFA: Even the Rodong Sinmun hasn’t mentioned the troops in Russia.
Thae: And maybe even the parents of those soldiers don’t know whether their sons have been sent by the North Korean regime.
RFA: South Korea’s intelligence service has reported that Russian defense official Sergei Shoigu went to North Korea last month to talk with Kim Jong Un about this issue. Also, North Korean Foreign Minister Choe Son Hui went to Russia for meetings this week. Can you give us insight on how she plays a role in this?
Thae: The interest for North Korea is how much foreign currency they would get in return for these soldiers. North Korea is now in great difficulty economically because of its investments in nuclear and missiles and because of recent flooding. So maybe Choe Son Hui will ask the Russians to pay a lot.
Secondly, North Korea is thirsty for Russia’s new technology. Kim Jong Un has stated a couple of times that he would succeed with a military satellite before the end of the year.
But now we are in November already and North Korea hasn’t made any dramatic advancements toward a satellite launch. Kim Jong Un has also promised that he would launch a nuclear submarine but so far we haven’t seen any sign of that.
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Thirdly, Kim Jong Un wants to play a role as a game changer in world politics. For instance, when Kim Jong Un has had success with nuclear weapons and ICBMs, he has boasted that North Korea could be a country with strategic importance. But so far, he hasn’t shown to the world that North Korea is a strategically important country.
But if North Korea can make an impact in the Ukraine war by sending their soldiers, then North Korea could say to the world that North Korea really is a game changer in world situations.
RFA: They can use that as propaganda.
Thae: That’s right. So the coming few weeks or months could be a very important period not only for North Korea, but I think for world security as well.
RFA: How do you think North Korean diplomats feel about the deployment?
Thae: I think all North Korean diplomats may be, at first, surprised. Secondly, they would be a little bit angry because these soldiers are sent to Ukraine to sacrifice their young lives just for, you know, the Kim Jong Un regime.
RFA: I remember that the South Korean defense minister said the soldiers will just be cannon fodder.
Thae: Yes, that’s right, and I’m not quite sure how many casualties North Korean soldiers may face. But if it gets serious and if there are many casualties from the side of North Korea, I think it could be remembered that they were sent for the interests of Kim Jong Un.
RFA: What do you think has been the role of the North Korean embassy in Moscow in preparing for this?
Thae: I think it’s been prepared for a while. You know, Russia used up most of their ammunition and then approached Kim Jong Un for help. That gave Kim Jong Un the opportunity to sell North Korean missiles and rockets to Russia. That then developed into sending soldiers.
The world should be united to make sure that this North Korean engagement in the Ukraine war is a failure. If North Korea succeeds in changing the current situation in Ukraine, I think the security framework on the Korean peninsula could get dangerous.
RFA: How do you view the response of the other embassies in North Korea to the troop deployment?
Thae: So far, it is not 100 percent proved that North Korea is engaged in the fight against Ukraine. But in the coming weeks or months, if there is clear proof that North Korean soldiers are really engaged in battle, then I think European countries should take more diplomatic sanctions against North Korea. Because it directly threatens peace on the European continent.
European countries could expel North Korean ambassadors to their countries or level down the current diplomatic relations with North Korea. And also the United Nations could further tighten the current sanctions regime against North Korea.
RFA: North Korea‘s UN mission first denied that North Korean troops are in Russia. But after the United States and NATO countries said it was confirmed – and also Vladimir Putin kind of hinted at it – suddenly North Korea’s Foreign Ministry put out a statement that basically said, “If it happened, it was within international law.” So why do you think they keep changing their word?
Thae: North Korea isn’t quite sure whether their soldiers will have any success in the war. Later on, if there’s no victory or some kind of great defeat, that could cause direct damage to Kim Jong Un’s leadership. So that’s why North Korea won’t acknowledge or deny. They want to keep a kind of ambiguity on this matter.
RFA: What do you think will be the overall effect on South Korea’s national security?
Thae: It could have a great effect. First of all, North Korean soldiers are testing their ability to fire their manufactured rockets and guns at the war front. They’ll figure out shortcomings and work on improving them. And secondly, North Korean troops are gaining experience on a real battleground.
RFA: Are you concerned that South Korea and North Korea will have any hostile activity anytime soon?
Thae: North Korea has been very provocative but I don’t think that the current inter-Korean relations will develop into conflict or war because now, for North Korea, this is the time for it to earn money and new technology. That’s why they’re sending more missiles, rockets, ammunition and even soldiers.
RFA: Do you have anything to say to any North Korean soldiers in Russia or Ukraine who may hear this interview?
Thae: I strongly urge them to escape because this really is a rare opportunity for them to defect. And I really strongly urge them to come to South Korea and enjoy freedom and human rights as human beings. There is no point for the young soldiers of North Korea to sacrifice their lives for Kim Jong Un.
RFA: What message do you have about unification?
Thae: Unification is the only way for all North Korean citizens to become happy and free. Kim Jong Un may continue to use all his available assets for the development of nuclear weapons and missiles.
But the North Korean people, they are also human beings so they deserve freedom and a normal life like the people of the rest of the world. Why should the North Korean people live like a hostage of the Kim Jong Un regime?
Edited by Matt Reed.