John Bolton was National Security Adviser to former President Donald Trump from 2018-2019. During Bolton’s tumultuous tenure, one of the goals of the administration was to secure a nuclear-free Korean peninsula by engaging in direct dialogue with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
In June 2018, Trump became the first sitting U.S. president to hold a summit with a North Korean leader when he met Kim in Singapore. Two more meetings with Kim would follow in 2019, first in Hanoi in February, and again in June on the border between South and North Korea, alongside then-South Korean President Moon Jae-in, but the two sides failed to reach any agreements.
Bolton resigned in September of 2019 and went on to write a controversial book the following year detailing his time advising the president.
RFA Korean journalist Lee Sangmin recently interviewed Bolton, asking him to share his thoughts on North Korea’s nuclear program, the likelihood of another meeting between U.S. and North Korean officials, and how another Trump presidency might affect U.S. policy on North Korea.
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
RFA: North Korea unveiled a uranium enrichment facility last month and Kim Jong UN visited the facility. During the Hanoi summit in 2019, President Trump discussed five nuclear sites with Kim Jong Un and asked him to get rid of all of them. Do you think that the uranium enrichment facility that he visited this time is one of those five nuclear sites mentioned at the summit?
Bolton: There's no doubt that the North Korean nuclear weapons program and indeed the entire North Korean nuclear infrastructure is very extensive and they've taken many measures over the years to conceal it from the outside world. They're well known for doing things including ballistic missile development in deeply buried sites. That's the protection they have from the outside world being able to detect what they're up to.
RFA: On Sept. 26, Rafael Grossi, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said North Korea is a “de facto nuclear weapons state.” Do you have any reaction to his remark?
Bolton: I think, given that there have been at least six nuclear tests that we know of, there's no doubt that North Korea has that capability. But it's a long way from recognizing reality to accepting North Korea as a nuclear weapons state. I don't accept it as a legitimate nuclear weapons state. I think – at least in terms of its ballistic missile development – it still can't, it still doesn't have that capability. And I think all of this should simply say to us we must redouble our efforts to make sure that North Korea never does get a deliverable nuclear weapon.
RFA: In negotiations with North Korea, do you think the new goal should be disarmament instead of denuclearization?
Bolton: I don't think the North Koreans are serious about negotiation. I think they've strung us out for 25 years unfortunately or even longer – 35 years – very successfully. And as we speak now, Israel is under attack by Iranian ballistic missiles. Hopefully they don't carry North Korean nuclear warheads. But it just shows what happens when you don't take this kind of threat as seriously as we should have.
RFA: If former President Trump is reelected, do you think he would be willing to talk with North Korea about denuclearization or just disarmament?
Bolton: I don't think President Trump knows the difference between the two. I think he would love to see his friend Kim Jong Un again. I think this would be very bad news for South Korea, Japan, and other countries in the region because I think that North Korea is even more determined than it was five years ago to be able to threaten the Republic of Korea and Japan and others with deliverable nuclear weapons. So our time is very short. I certainly understand that.
Do you think that North Korea will return to personal diplomacy if Trump is reelected?
Bolton: I think there's a very good chance they would because I believe they think they can out-bargain Donald Trump and get him to agree to terms that are unfortunately very favorable to North Korea.
During President Trump's term, the North Koreans rolled out the same playbook they've used in other negotiations like the agreed framework, like the negotiations in the Bush administration, where they get tangible economic benefits up front with only promises on their part to denuclearize, which they never seemed to get around to. And that's the kind of deal that's very beneficial to North Korea, but it won't bring denuclearization, it won't bring peace and security in East Asia.
I think Trump doesn't fully understand the nature of what's at issue. I think that's one reason back in 2018, he canceled the major joint exercises between R.O.K. and U.S. forces that were purely defensive in nature, gave it to North Korea for nothing and got nothing in return. So it's a disturbing prospect that he would come back again and perform the same way.
RFA: Do you think that Trump might have learned from his previous dealings with Kim and what has happened over the previous five years?
Bolton: There's no evidence that he's learned his lesson. Unfortunately, he said on the campaign trail recently that he looked forward to seeing his friend Kim Jong Un again.
RFA: Recently relations between North Korea and Russia are on the upswing, especially because of Russia’s war in Ukraine. Should that conflict end, do you think that this trend of close ties will continue?
Bolton: I think the relations between the two countries will continue to grow. Kim Jong Un has established himself really in the same position as his grandfather – able to play China off against Russia, something that hasn't happened since the collapse of the Soviet Union when Russia for its own internal weaknesses really didn't pay as much attention to North Korea, which became much more dependent on China. So Kim Jong Un is happy to be a go-between between the two bigger powers. I think it enhances his leverage unfortunately.
RFA: There are some who think that South Korea should develop its own nuclear weapons rather than rely on the United States’ policy of extended deterrence. What are your thoughts on this matter?
Bolton: I hope that that decision isn't made and I would instead favor the redeployment of American tactical nuclear weapons on the peninsula. But I understand why South Koreans are worried that a regime like the Biden administration or the Harris administration or even the Trump administration couldn't be depended upon. And if that's the case, then if I were in South Korea's place, I'd get nuclear weapons too. I just hope it doesn't come to that. I would prefer that they feel comfortable with extended deterrence by the United States.
It's not that I worry about South Korea, I think it's obviously one of the most responsible countries in the world. But every country that gets nuclear weapons on its own inspires other countries to do the same. So I think [if that were to happen] Japan would be more likely to get nuclear weapons and [so would] other countries around the world. That's how proliferation works.
RFA: You have often said that the collapse of the North Korean regime is the only way to solve the North Korean problem. Do you still feel this way, and do you think such a development is likely?
Bolton: I do think that South Korea and the United States, Japan and others should really be working toward the reunification of the Korean peninsula under the kind of government and economic system that South Korea has. That's for the good of the people of North Korea who are living in a large prison camp today, and I wish we could find more creative ways to do that.
It's not replacing Kim Jong Un with another dictator, it's bringing the Korean people back together again under the right kind of system that our policy should be aiming at.
Edited by Eugene Whong.